Arts
The Search for the Next Fred Herzog
Most Vancouver-based street photographers are familiar with Fred Herzog's work. Armed with Kodachrome slides and an eye for the moment, Herzog artistically documented this city's evolution for over 40 years.
Today I found out that the Block is leading a search for the next Fred Herzog. They're holding a contest where participants submit their best photographs of Main Street. The winner (as judged by Herzog himself) receives a limited addition 18 x 12 inch print of "Main Barber from Sidewalk" (pictured above). The top ten photos will be framed and exhibited at Parklane's summer Block Party.
After the exhibit, each finalist can keep their framed print and a signed copy of "Vancouver Photographs". Browsing through our Flickr group proves that many of our readers are eligable to win this competition. If you do compete, be sure to link to your submission in the comments section! Good luck!
The Block's Main Street Photo Contest is accepting submissions until May 31, 2009. Participants may enter up to five photographs. The contest promoters have assured me that copyright remains with the photographer. See comments for the discussion on contest rules and photographers' rights.
Photo Credit: Fred Herzog
Discussion
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It's good to hear that the copyright remains with the photographer. However, the rules don't explicity state that. In fact, I believe they say the opposite. Nevertheless, if photographers treat this as a commissioned project, where a buyer might be granted full lifetime use of an image, the currently stated rules are still somewhat palatible.
However, what concerns me most, and should concern all contestants, is that the photographer is liable if any lawsuit arises. In other words, if the company is sued for $25,000 based on your photograph, the contest rules make the photographer responsible -- including lawyer fees. Ouch!
I'm pretty exhausted by these contests where photographers are on the short end of the stick when it comes to the legalities. The photographer and lawyer (www.photoattorney.com) often rails against those who sponsor contests like this. If you want to see some great rules the benefit the photographer, check out this contest. It's as straightforward as it gets, and no fancy lawyer lingo:
http://www.wiebetech.com/photo_contest/index.php?#entryform
That said, I still may enter... against my better judgment. I wonder if Herzog would enter this contest with these rules...
Was about to leave a comment to the extent of "rights grab" but I see John already beat me to it. Not entering.
"13. Entrants agree to grant to Sponsor and Organizer an everlasting, royalty-free, assignable, exclusive license to use, utilize, replicate, alter, adapt, modify, publish, broadcast, translate, produce derivative works from, distribute, present, play, sublicense and exercise all copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to your contribution worldwide and/or to include your contribution in other works in any media now known or later created forever. Each entrant agrees and grants Sponsor and Organizer permission to make available and display/perform and otherwise distribute entrant's name and Photo submission in all media in perpetuity without compensation. Except where legally prohibited, submission of an entry into this Contest constitutes permission for Sponsor and Organizer to use the entrant's name, photograph, likeness, voice, address (city and province) and testimonials, in printed, broadcast media or new media, in perpetuity, in any manner they deem appropriate in connection with promoting the Photo submission itself or this Contest, without further compensation in connection with this Contest or the prize awarded."
and
"7. By submitting your contribution to the Organizer in relation to the Contest you agree to and thereby waive any and all moral
rights that exist in your contribution to the Contest and any derivate works made there from."
Doesn't look like copyright remains with the photographer to me.
Thanks, Jeff, for posting those; it adds substance to the discussion. Maybe the organizers would care to comment personally.
"The top ten photos will be framed and exhibited at Parklane's summer Block Party."
in other words, park lane needs photos of cool trendy quaint main street to push $600k townhomes. i like herzog, but i'll never be on a developer's street team.
Hi all,
Thanks for the feedback on the rules section for the photo contest- we hear you out and know that some of the legal needs to be clarified so that you are comfortable to submit. We are going through it now and will have an update tomorrow, so please do stay tuned! We'll also come back to this thread once it has been changed to give you a heads up.
Also, thanks for the write up, Ami. This is clearly a discussion that needed to happen so thanks for starting the conversation!
Thanks again,
The crew at memelabs
Thanks for stopping by, The Crew. This a contest I'd very much like to participate. I'm looking forward to reading the update.
Peace.
Waxy
While were on the subject, could I please have some clarification on rule #2, which states:
"Photos can be shot with camera phones, digital Photo cameras or any other digital moving image format. No video entries will be accepted."
It seems pretty obvious that means no film cameras -- only digital. Is that correct? Thanks.
Also, thanks for the write up, Ami. This is clearly a discussion that needed to happen so thanks for starting the conversation!
I'm glad to see you in the conversation! I hope we can get the rules cleared up so everyone can submit without worry.
It's funny The Block is being so cozy about Main Street. The development is on 12th just East of Kingsway. Not very close to Main Street at all. Closer to the Kingsgate Mall actually, buts that's not such a hip place to be associated with in any way shape or form!
Thanks to everyone for clarifying those entry details. I'd love a Herzog print but I won't enter this contest.
No sign of The Meme Crew? The rules have not changed and the contest ends in 3 days. Just sayin...
Not that I have anything against Mr. Herzog or his work which I admire, but I'm not interested in being the next anyone. Quite happy being The Blackbird right now.
Good luck to those who enter.
@Waxy - The last date for submissions is May 31
Ahh... right. Thanks, Ami. I'll give them more time. ;-)
Some guy on Main St. today was like wtf is with everyone taking photos today.
The folks at memelabs sent me an email update regarding your questions:
Hi all,
Thanks for the continued chats- we are back and really pleased with the
submissions that have come in this weekend (something that @CH noticed!) and
are looking forward to the continued effort this week.
To add to where we left off - what we noticed in this thread was primarily a
concern about ownership of the photo entry so we have added to the rules:
"For clarity, you retain all of your ownership rights in your User
Submissions." The license to use these works would simply be in promotion of
the local photographers in the area, to which we would provide proper
photographer credit.
To answer @Waxy- yes, you are right about point #2. We took your thoughts
into consideration and have also clarified that point to now read: "Photos
can be shot with camera phones, digital Photo cameras or any other camera
format but must be converted to a digital image format for entry to the
contest. No video entries will be accepted."
Hope that helps!
We have followed the major guidelines and rules set by other high profile
photo contests and user generated content sites. Our goal is to have some
fun, showcase the amazing work of our talented community and to provide them
with a place to share their photos (and perhaps score an amazing print in
the process).
Of course, feel free to keep asking questions and we'll be here to help at
any time.
Thanks!
Nadia, of the memelabs crew
Is it just me, or does the addition of that single phrase completely miss the point? The rules still grant a perpetual license to use and modify the image at will, with all of the offensive clauses intact. For example:
"Each entrant agrees and grants Sponsor and Organizer permission to make available and display/perform and otherwise distribute entrant's name and Photo submission in all media in perpetuity without compensation."
There's a change that's simple to make - take out 'all media in perpetuity' and insert something along the lines of 'the final exhibition, between DDMMYYYY and DDMMYYY'.
The real point is that if you don't need particular rights, don't ask for them. If you don't plan on modifying the images submitted, don't require entrants to grant you the right to do so, and don't require that they waive moral rights. If you want to have one single exhibition, you don't need to have all rights in perpetuity. Why ask for more if you don't need them?
Have you looked at the rules of any other photo contest? National Geographic, Kodak.... this is par for the course. memelabs is a locally based company known for doing a lot of free work for non-profits, and known in the industry for having a good attitude. Go pick on Facebook or something. This is not the enemy.
Blog moderator, curious why you didn't post my comment...seems odd. Can you clarify?
Much appreciated,
Drew
Ha...I guess all the comments aren't moderated.
For context to the rest of you, I posted a thought about if from my perspective, I've run a bunch of contests in my day. My main point was that the folks are right about the issue, but it's very difficult to change rules mid-contest, for fairness reasons. For some reason my comment was moderated, and not posted.
@Drew Peloso - It's our over zealous spam filter. If anyone else is having problems posting comments, email me at ami (at) beyondrobson (dot) com.
@Ami - posting this a 2nd time, so it's still reeling me in. I said, "thanks for the update, feel free to fish it out and post it."
@memelabs.
Thanks for getting back with an answer to my question.
On the other point about ownership/licensing I continue to agree with @notmatt: the wording is overarching and, if anything, conflicting.
Nevertheless, for me the bigger concern is that the entire legal burden is being placed onto the photographer. This isn't fair. How can we be liable when the rules state that the company can use the photo in any way it wishes. Once the photos leave our hands, we have no control over it -- Memelabs and The Block do.
Photo Attorney has some great commentaries about what is fair and what is not for photo contests. Furthermore, this contest has almost no legal jargon. As they say.. KISS. I encourage you to look to those sites for guidance for this and future contests.
Lastly, could Memelabs (or anyone) please clarify the following: Are people allowed in the shots? It seems the rules state that minors must have waivers but what about adults? Most shots in the pool are un-peopled. Thanks for any help.
I still have not decided if I will participate. I hope to. Maybe more changes will come. I hope so.
@Jackie.
Of course Memelabs is not the enemy -- nobody is accusing them of this. The point we are making is that the rules are unfair. Period. That does not make them evil, but they can do better.
While I'm thrilled at the idea of a local and exciting photography contest, and the chance to meet one of my photography idols, I find it excruciating to hear photographers being taken advantage. It doesn't matter if the sponsor is National Geographic, Kodak or even Facebook. They have been and continue to be in my bad book! As I showed above with the link, companies can make exceedingly simplistic rules that mutually benefit the company and the photographer. That's what I'm asking for.
What bothers me most, maybe, is that two icons of the city, Equinox and Herzog, are overlooking the embarrassing details of this contest. For what? These rules burden the photographers and artists trying eek out a living our city. That's kind of sad for me...
Memelabs has listened and rewrote some of the rules, specifically that photographers retain their copyright and moral rights. It reads:
"7. Entrants will retain copyright and moral rights in their images. Moral rights are to be respected, the images used and published will always be credited to the photographer, that credit taking the usual form of the copyright notice, i.e . (copyright) year name."
Thanks Memelabs. The rules are not perfect but I appreciate your willingness to listen. I also plan to enter!