Beirut is Burning

I saw some photos of dead children this morning. I can't imagine what kind of people could do this. Unbelievable!

Israel is desperately setting a new standard, one that is equal to Nazi idea of total war. This is a racist war that is fueled by anti arab racism of Americans, Europeans, Canadians, Jews and non Jews alike. This is a war to re-establish the supremacy of ALL people of European background, including Jews over the middle east. Welcome to the new world order.

Equating Jews with Nazis is a naive and hateful thing to do -- note how "Never Again" uses Israel and Jews as interchangeable terms. Many Jews are opposed to Israel's current policies. Clearly there has to be a ceasefire here, too many civilians are dying. But don't forget that Hezbollah is devoted to the elimination of Israel as a state -- they think it has no right to exist. Hezbollah is also targeting purely civilan areas in Israel. The civilan deaths aren't collateral damage -- they are the targets. But the Lebanese people are dying because of these bombs, and that is why it has to stop. Just be careful that justified hatred of US foreign policy doesn't leak over into anti-semitism. And keep in mind that many of these organizations want to WIPE OUT Israel.

-Naben

Reading between the lines of the petty bickering, this was an interesting discussion:
http://stillepost.ca/boards/index.php?topic=52671.0

Terror=Terror Naben. This week 300 Lebanese civilians, not Hezbollah fighters, CIVILIANS have been killed. 7 Israeli civilians have been killed. Eye for an eye? Is this a measured response? Don't play the anti-semitism card Naben, its about as played out as the Nazi card, besides Arabs are semites. Anti-Israel does not equal Anti-Jew.

If you talk like the Nazis and act like the Nazis, people have all the right to assume that you are equal to Nazis. 2 captured soldiers versus the destruction of a country? if this is not acting like Nazis, then tell me what is it? What is more hateful? Calling Israel�s actions equal to Nazis, or Israel acting like Nazis? Why so much protection for this little spoiled kid of the west that refuses to grow up and act like a civilized adult? Now tell me Nabe, when George Bush and Hilary Clinton claim that the state of Israel represent the aspirations of all Jews, do you complain that not all Jews love with Israel? Why associating Israel and Jews is good when it�s done as a positive thing, but it�s evil when done as a form of criticism? Israel claims to be a Jewish state. It has appropriated the logo of the Jewish people. if Jews are uncomfortable with that, why aren�t we seeing massive demonstrations by the Jewish people against the use of their symbols? Why, besides a handful of progressive and mostly left leaning organizations, not many Jews protest Israel�s identity theft of the Jewish people? Bombing a country to little pieces and showing total disregard for the civilians is much much worse than verbal anti Semitism anyways. It�s a tragedy that Israel as a Jewish state has brought itself to this low level where its actions are going to be judged worse than verbal anti Semitism. In the short term, Israel may be winning this war, but in the long run, the high moral and ethical ground of the entire Jewish world is at risk by Israel�s actions. Israel may have a right to exist based on UN resolutions, but it does not have a right to do break international laws and it�s not allowed to do whatever it wants under the shadowy pretext of self defense. To clean up this mess, Israel needs to apologize for its actions, agree to prisoner exchange, and pay the price tag for the rebuilding of Lebanon. Only paranoid freaks would equate peace and coexistence with hate and anti Semitism.

Of course anti-Israel doesn't equal anti-Jew -- what I'm saying is that it's all too easy to let the one legtimate political opinion bleed into labelling, For ex: "...restablish the supremacy of ALL people of European background, including Jews over the Middle East." It's phrasing like that that makes me a little wary. Sean, I totally understand what you mean about the anti-semite card being overplayed, but sometimes it actually does have validity. Note how "Never Again" really does equate Israel and Jews in his retaliation.

And again, as I said twice, this war has to stop now, because of all the terrible civilian deaths. I never, ever, said that it was a justified response at all. Civilian deaths are never justified. I wanted to point out that the other party (Hezbollah, not Lebanon) is not a peaceful, innocent orgaziation. That's something that shouldn't be ignored.

And, "Never Again," I guess I don't really know how to respond to you. Clearly that parallel you drew between Israel and "all Jews" wasn't just in my imagination. Is "paranoid freak" directed at me? Seems a little intense. I won't draw this out into a long argument, but Sean should see that you do indeed equate Israel and Jews. If you're comfortable with that, fine. I'm not. But I'm not going to yell at some anonymous person who is clearly not violent at all, anyways -- it's just that some of your ideas make me bristle.

It that makes me uncomfortable to see such clear sides being drawn by left-wing and right-wing people alike when the Arab / Israeli conflict is so complex and problematic. One thing is simple: civilian deaths of this volume are disgusting, uncalled for, and must come to an end immediately. I agree with paying the price for rebuilding Lebanon.

Anyways, I'm responding to make it clear that I am pro-war or think any of these civilian deaths are justified. The deaths on both sides need to stop.

-Naben

That last sentence should read: Anyways, I'm responding to make it clear that I am not pro-war or think any of these civilian deaths are justified. The deaths on both sides need to stop.

This is not about your comfort in fact I personally don?t give a damn about what you Naben feel comfortable with these days, It's about 1,000,000 homeless people in Beirut dude. Arab Israeli conflict is not so complex, the complexity belongs to the relationship between the West and The Jewish Diaspora and Israel. And that you as a Western subject have to come to terms with. Israel and the Jewish Diaspora are not the same thing, but unfortunately they overlap. it?s called Zionism. I wish there were more Jews who were against Israel. I am glad that there are many who are against Israel. Do you think it is a coincidence that a large majority of Jewish organizations and Jewish communities around the world support Israel? you are blinded by your emotional response to Holocaust and the historic European anti Semitism. What Israel is doing is not equal to what Arabs are doing. Verbal anti Semitism is less dangerous than Israel?s actual hateful war against the people of Palestine and Lebanon. It's easy to condemn war, but let me see you condemn Israel's war crimes as a Western democracy. It?s easy to condemn Hezbollah, a bunch of Muslim fanatics, but when are you going to face the demon that we in West created? This war is a racist war. The real message of this war is supremacy of Jewish people over Arabs. Of course that?s not the intention of Jews or the people of Israel, but the Israeli government is waging this war to tell the world that Israeli Jews are above Arabs. Their lives more precious, and their blood more pricy. This war is about saying that in our time one eye is no longer enough, Israel demands 200 eyes for an eye.

Instead of my "comfort" I should have said that a certain kind of thinking can easily lead into racial hatred. Now that you've expanded your points I see exactly what you mean. I still am not opposed to the existence of Israel as a state, and I definitely do think you're oversimplifying the complexity of the problem. Your rhetoric seems to hinge on thinking that you're more informed than blinded Westerners like me, so again, I don't really know how to argue with that, and don't really see the point. There are many types of "accepted wisdom," and it's not all from the right wing. Just because I don't agree with you entirely doesn't make me a naive fool. As long as it's clear to non-anonymous people like Sean Orr that I'm not in favour of Israel bombing the hell out of innocents, which I think I've made clear, then I'm finished here. One thing is sure: this problem is certainly not going to be resolved by two dudes yelling at each other on the Internet. Kofi Annan said, exactly what I meant: Hezbollah is gulity of inciting this, but the Israeli counterstrike has been ridiculously overblown.

Thanks for clarifying Naben. However, I do think you are influenced by a highly biased world view perpetuated by big media in which one covers all the bases and is careful to condemn Israel while also condemning Hezbollah. Hezbollah carried out a milkitary action against the Israeli Army in order to orchestrate a prisoner exchange for the hundreds of Lebanese that are held hostage (without charge) in Israeli cells. This has been done countless times in the region. This time however, Israel jumped on the opportunity to invaded thee people of Lebanon in order to create a buffer zone between them and Syria, and in order to gain access to vital water resources.

I also don't think that Never Again has refuted Israel's right to exist, except for questioning why it is given an immunity to violate international law, and except for calling an for a return to 1968 borders. The West Bank is not Israel, therefore calling for them to leave is not questioning Israel's right to exist.

you are correct when you say it is a complicated issue, my concern however is that Israeli actions are making it simple to choose. Its almost like we are reduced too picking teams. The western, highly militarized, US backed, proxy state of Israel; or the Iran backed militia from a country who was up until 5 years ago were occupied by the former, with low budget rockets fighting for their captured countrymen and protesting the invasion of their neighbours.

Just to clarify two things: israel's action ARE based on racial hatred of Arabs. In fact Israel's actions are a violent physical manifestation of such a hatred. And since israel's hatred is in action, its far worse than an anti semitic allegation, as abhorrent as verbal anti Semitism. so again Why do you worry for an appearance of racial hatred, when in fact Israel is acting out those hatreds in a violent war inspired by Nazi's idea of total war? This is very simple and so complicated to understand.

on the issue of Hezbollah, many news reports, including the Frobes magazine refute Kofi Annan and those who call this a Hezbollah provocation. Israeli troops had already crossed into Lebanon when they were killed and captured by Hezbollah. Therefore, Hezbollah's killing and capturing of Israeli soldiers falls completely within the Geneva conventions. Sorry that a bunch of " turbaned arab terrorists" are more committed to our western standards of war than that the bastion of democracy and civility called Israel.

Just as a heads-up, the 'little girls writing on missiles' photos aren't as cut-and-dried as they seem.

http://ontheface.blogware.com/blog/_archives/2006/7/20/2142505.html

Thought you might be interested.

I don't really see how that places things in a different context. The media portrays muslims as teaching their children to hate. But as long as children are inculcated the values of war as aretribution, it won't stop. That is the context of the picture. You can't spin that. This is a picture of children writing on missiles. It IS that cut and dry.

Sorry, but there can be no spinning of these simple photos. There can be no pro Israel BS this time. Israel has volunteered to engage Muslims in the American crusade. This is the birth of a ruthless regional mini superpower, bye bye “poor Israel�. Bye bye victim . This is the coming-of-age story of a racist regime lashing outwards in a show of force. Israel’s crimes have to be condemned as racially motivated war, since the root of the disproportionate response Israel has been leveling against Lebanon or Hezbollah is that Israeli lives are far more precious and important than Arab Lebanese lives.