Is Surrey the New Vancouver?

I'm from Richmond, where these fancy new condos are being built left and right, and have been as long as I've lived here. Has Richmond become any more of a destination, though -- apart from the mall, which closes at 9 PM? If places like Richmond, Surrey, Burnaby, etc. are to deliver on the chic cosmopolitan lifestyles promised by the condo developers' marketing campaigns, we're going to need to put a lot more into supporting culture and nightlife; as it is, the only places open past midnight are generally late-night sushi joints. Richmond's failure to deliver a Yaletown experience is also largely due to zoning.

Of course, whether or not suburbs should aim to be the next Yaletown is another matter entirely...

Quattro is phase II of a larger development that is literally pumping millions of dollars into the area directly surrounding hte SUrrey Central skytrain station, where the new SFU campus just opened this past year.

I almost bought into phase one - this company, with full support of the city, is developing a hip, slick high density living area intended to create a living center tehre - especially for people who might use the skytrian to commute into town. WHile the cultrual/nightclub part of the equation may not show upfor many many years (if ever) the high density plan does call for street level shopping and small grocery stores, a type of urben development the GVRD desperately needs and it hard to find outside of well, actual vancouver city.

I think this may actually take off. While whally has a bad rep, as someone who grew up near there and has also lived in new west and downtown, i can definately say that a) it has cleaned up immensely in the last year and b)parts of new west and east van are by far more dangerous, more sketchy, moer dirty.

This development starts at $119,000 givng young people a chance to buy nice condos they'd never be able to afford in vancouver city proper. Attracting young wroking professionals may be the key to this development actually being successful.

It's STILL Whalley! I grew up near there, and there are still parnshops and strip bars along the strip there....and junkies, hookers, and car thieves...hey wait a minute...it IS the new Yaletown!

It's sad that Yaletown is something Whalley is striving to become. It's definitely taking baby steps - but the place has character, much like Vancouver used to have.

Nice comments, everyone. Thx.

Like Rebecca, i think it's unfortunate that like it or not,Whalley is getting a personality make-over. Is this sort of thing inevitable?

No, it's not inevitable. The East Side problem has been there forever even though they have tried to fix it. Whalley has tried in the past too. I think it has gotten better than it was say 10 years ago, but it's still pretty ug.

In regards to "losing the personality" of Whalley - which Surrey Central isn't even a full or true representation of that area - I remember the area around Surrey Central when I was a child being an ok place - when the mall there was bright and shiney and new, and the library and community center were clean, decent places to go in the community. Then the skytrain came along and the area in that direct vincinity (I'm talking a 5 min walk radius of the skytrain station) went quite a bit down hill for a while - the mall turned into a ghost mall, and even the reconstruction a few years ago couldn't save it, it was empty and stores left quickly. It seems only having the SFU campus in the building may revive the mall.

Giving the area there a chance to flourish - something that in my lifetime it has not been able to do, is something that I think is great. Just because an area is beign devoloped doesn't eman it has to lose it's personality. To take an area of surrey and inject young professionals there, a University campus, gives the area a chance to re-define it's self.

Unfortunately it suffers from a bad reputation that is not entirely deserved. Sure it's run down with pawn shops and seedy bars, but what part of burnaby or new west isn't? The crime i witnessed in 2 years new west was drastically worse that what I've ever witnessed in the 16 or so years I lived in surrey.

I think this is a good idea for the area, and here is a pro most people don't think of:

if it takes off, and in all tehse phases of condo owners who are 5 min from the skytrain start using their voting/muscle/campaigning power, it could mean HUGE postive results for the frequency/shut down time of the skytrain as these people who won't need cars commute to the rest of Vancouver for work, play, etc.

Good pts, Jeannette. i shouldn't take the case that down-trodden is better (though i admit i do find it a relief from everything being so f'ing pristine in other parts).

Here's my opinion: I bet that if Surrey were to invest more in culture, then people w/ cash would follow, much to the disgruntlement of the artists who can't afford rent anymore.

But if they go the Richmond route, then you get a lot of condos but no real reason to live there except for condos. Then everyone'll end up hitting Granville strip on Friday and that's just bad news.

btw, i don't really know what point i'm making.

Whenever I am out of the province and someone states they live in Vancouver.
I always like to ask where in Vancouver.

They usually then lower their head and say,'Well actually Burnaby'. Or Surrey, that kind of thing.
I love telling them, 'thats not 'living' in Vancouver and I don't care who hears that one.

There's actually plenty of culture in Surrey - adding shiney glass condos into the heart of Whalley (I'm talking 108 and King George, not Surrey Place Mall) won't exactly do that. It will "clean up" the place in a sense, bring in those young professionals, bring in some money blah blah blah but the culture has been alive and thriving for years. There's so many ethnicities, ages, places to eat, festivals to participate in, parks, and yes, there's also an Art Gallery in Surrey and a couple theatres oooooh!

To start: I don't live in Surrey, but still live pretty damn close for people to often confuse my city with it. When I first saw these ads at the skytrain, I snapped a pic and sent it to my friend. We still laugh at these ads when we see them today. Whalley is Whalley. Building condos will never change that. There will still be 2cent hookers on King George, and my car will still be stolen from the SFU parking lot.
BTW - When outisde of the province, saying that we live in Vancouver is supposed to bring us together. It's not supposed to bring out the holier-than-thou attitudes that exist in a select few of those who reside in the city. Just because we have bigger homes and real lawns doesn't mean you should feel jealous that we reside also in the GVRD,

I think its nice to see a condo at a price I could imaging buying at.

I second that, Jeff. I also don't mind the development cause it'll bring up the value of my parents' house :-P

I grew up on the outskirts of Whalley and I remember Whalley Exchange being much scarier than Surrey Central is today. Today its mostly meth-head goths, white-trash hip hop wangsters wearing WWF pajama pants and puffy jackets. But back in the day man, the skids ruled. If you were a punk or pakistani you were scared.

Re. the development of condos, I am always in favour of high-density, and they have been promising this is surrey since i was in highschool at QE. The problem is that ex-Mayor Doug McCallum had to strategy in place to deter suburban sprawl. As a result, Surrey is spread out like a king george hooker.

Take it from someone that DID buy in Whalley & lived there for 4-1/2 years, the place is a total shit-hole & always will be. I had owned a 2 BR/2 BTH 975 sqft place (purchased at the time for $91k), not some dinky studio - which I guarantee is what you'll get for that "starting" price.

It was an incredibly depressing place to live - everywhere people were agitated, miserable, possibly severely hungover - single moms smoking & pushing their baby strollers around (actually, kind of fun if you make a bingo-type game out of counting them) ... crime was rampant, an overall air of neglect ... I hated it. I worked downtown & spent all my free time downtown (not one of the Granville strip idiots, but same kind of idea), so it was really pointless. When I got pepper-sprayed & jumped by a gang while walking home from the Skytrain (this IS the neighbourhood they're building the Quattro in), that was the final straw ... I sold the place for a loss & moved downtown & have NEVER looked back.

You can put a nice new Yaletown-type building anywhere really ... but a ditch-pig wearing a tiara is still a ditch-pig.

To quote my Mom's advice when I considered buying into the then-new Van Horne in Gastown at the developer's promise of a "cleaned-up neighbourhood" (this was in '97 ... real big change! Ha! Ha! to all you suckers that bought into the "W"!), she had said, "That element has been there since I was a teenager in the late 60's ... I promise you it WILL NOT CHANGE!" ... Thanks Mom!

JD - then call it the GVRD, or call it what it is, 'Bring us together' sounds like an excuse or shame about where you really live.
While you are spending time cutting your precious lawn or slapping on paint to some wood rotted house that you assume will be some big investment for your future.
The rest of us are being social and enjoying the parks and hopefully working within our communities to help make it a better place for everyone.

JD - then call it the GVRD, or call it what it is, 'Bring us together' sounds like an excuse or shame about where you really live.
While you are spending time cutting your precious lawn or slapping on paint to some wood rotted house that you assume will be some big investment for your future.
The rest of us are being social and enjoying the parks and hopefully working within our communities to help make it a better place for everyone.

Did you hear the Quattro sold out in like 67 minutes or something.

67 minutes, huh? I guess that's either a good or a bad thing.

Sorry i posted so late. If Cackaroche's blurb had hit the web earlier, we coulda knocked it back to 72 minutes easy!

Aw but come on, from Quattro you can walk to Red Hot Video, Alleycat Pharmacy, The Dell AND Poncho n' Lefties without having to call Bonnie's taxi at 3am to come pick you up. Location, location, location :-D

Whats wrong with whalley? I used to lived in east van is 10 times worse than whalley, but then I still loves main and hasting area, its pretty , oh by the way its Beautiful Vancouver.

the problems in whalley are drugs and poverty. building high-density condo buildings may bring a different demographic into Whalley, but what about the people that are currently in that area? Developing new buildings does not deal with the root causes... only displaces these people.

The skids still rule. But anyway Whalley is pickin it up, and there's lot of developmnent sites around town now to take you Chevy 4X4 on. Blue collar boys are gonna rule the day agin' cause they get paid overtime to rebuild the city this time. Roll baby roll. Pauncho's rules too
Geoff

Whalley ... a place, an area that will always haunt me for the rest of my life. DO NOT take whatever the developers or the city hall promise .. it is all for marketing and profit driven. They are the ones developing some "dream" on lands cost next to nothing, probably taken over from poor ignorant real estate investors who bought them 20 years ago, hold, maintained until the brink of bankruptcy. Why do I know? Because I used to manage a 204 units apartment complex called the Imperial Parkside next to 96 Ave and 128 St. It was the most depressing time of my life, managing a money draining family investment. When I walked through the property with my resident manager, I felt like I was a UN Peace keeping troop, walking through a war zone. Those animals out there, I mean ANIMALS, do not have any regard to anything, naming pride, responsibility, sense and respect of ownership ... you know, anything like a normal human being. These zombies roam around all day, living on welfare, like to move from one apartment to another within the same complex (shall I call them Vikings?). They neglect the hygiene and minimal up keep of their own living space until not even a dog (sorry, more like a raccoon) could stand it, then they request for a transfer. Everything was paid for by the welfare office. But turnaround, welfare office would question us, the management for deducting cleaning and repair expenses, and even all the time, unpaid rent. People will be the same there, not even any major change nor development in the area will 'displace' or improve the demography of Whalley. So do not get suckered into buying a fresh new condo, which in reality is surrounded by junks of all kind. Your money is hard earned, and so is your mortgage payment. Spend it somewhere else!

While I'm certainly not first in line to buy into the marketing ploys trying to get people to mortgage their lives on Whalley, I still say the development of the center of Surrey is an exciting thing to watch. Whatever people might have to say about some neighborhoods never changing, I think it pays to remember that the DTES was before the 1980s one of the most important shopping districts in the city. Whalley is still one of the sketchiest places to live in the Lower Mainland, but who knows what it will be ten years from now? As for lawns and houses, I'm afraid that that sort of development that still reigns supreme in the Valley is the biggest reason why Whalley turned into the hole that it did. With the rising cost of fuel, etc., it's possible that those who buy into these marketing ploys might still have the last laugh. As for Richmond, it's only now getting access to skytrain - all the condo development there that apparently has no bearing on Richmond becoming a 'destination' might turn out to play a significant long-term role in that city's coming of age.

I often stand on the top floor of Surrey Central Tower, that strange shaped glass tower built in the heart of Whalley. From up there the view of Whalley is a perfect oval of glass; three floors of unobstructed glass, actually. That penthouse is a pristine, palatial office, completely unused. It was designed for ICBC but never occupied by them. I'm alone up there all the time. So I have time to watch Surrey grow, and I often do, my nose pressed to the glass. Whalley will change, dramatically, and it will happen in a way most people in B.C. would accept with cynical zeal, if they could see what I see. Simply put, the fix is in. . . . With dubious intent, that's how real change happens in Whalley, my home town. As far as I'm concerned, this debate about whether condo development will or won't change the face of Whalley is silly. Whalley will be changed. Old Whalley will be crushed under a wall of cash. Quattro? Quattro is a tree-fort, a footnote. From my penthouse I can point to where 8 block-sized complexes will be built, in addition to the 10 under construction. I can point to the sites of 5 high-rise buildings, in addition to the 3 under construction. Money is going to drown Whalley in the next five years because conditions are right. Whalley is the path of least resistance. Should development money come to Whalley? Is it money well spent? The businesses, governments, organizations, and individuals managing the process really don't care. There is money to be made, and they are making it. The Whalley we know will be disappeared quickly and completely.
So, am I wearing a tin-foil hat? My penthouse office is vacant. It has always been vacant, empty for years. Money wasted? Sure. That's shot-gun spending. But very soon some powerful business will pay to command this sniper's view of Whalley. Whalley should be known as the city financial momentum built.
Haven't called me crazy yet? I predict a time when Red Hot Video, Alleycat Pharmacy, The Dell and Poncho n' Lefties will all be considered community institutions. Poncho n' Lefties will serve the best triple martini in town. The Dell will seat you without a reservation, if you are wearing a tie.

I completely agree with Larry's thoughtful, well written commentary. I would just like to add that projects such as Quattro (which in due course of time may rightfully be referred to as "footnotes") are arguably one of the catalysts that will bring great change.