City
Seattle Vs. Vancouver: The Great Urban Debate
On June 16th I went with a friend to the Seattle Vs. Vancouver: The Great Urban Debate put on by the SFU and Via Architecture. The debate was interesting because it pitted former City Councillors from each city arguing for the other city. So Gordon Price from Vancouver was arguing in favour of Seattle, and Peter Steinbrueck from Seattle was arguing in favour of Vancouver.
I'd never really witnessed a real 'debate' before, where everyone had a time limit and opening statements and 30 seconds to respond. The outline at the beginning was all very official sounding, but the actual debate was more of a conversation about the two cities.
What was really interesting for me was hearing someone from outside of Vancouver talk about the positive attributes of our city. I think a lot of the time, as citizens of Vancouver, we tend to focus on the negative while discounting the positive. This was also brought to my attention when a friend from San Francisco visited and started praising our transportation system. I almost fell over. But he had some valid points. And I realized, as I listened to his criticisms of the SF transit system (which I thought brilliant, from my time there), that citizens will always be tougher on their own city.
The debaters, aside from their Power Point opening remarks, had this same tendency. Peter Steinbruek, from Seattle, focussed much of his debate on the things Seattle had done wrong, and Gordon Price did the same for Vancouver. There was talk of positive things in each city, but it seemed mainly to be dominated by wrong decisions, over right decisions.
The most interesting points of the night I thought were:
1) Gordon Price pointed out the trend for developers in Vancouver to figure out the lowest common denominator that the city will approve and then continually knock it off over and over again, to create an architectural house of mirrors. Think Vancouver Special. Think Green Glass Condos. While Seattle has things like their amazing public library. They take risks. We don't.
2) There was, of course, talk of Vancouver's large and winding sea wall. However, I thought that Gordon Price offered a fair criticism of the sea wall in stating that it doesn't serve as a gathering place, but a steady flow of people around the outer edge of the city, constantly in motion to somewhere else. And I think that's a great point. As the VPSN Where's the Square? contest showed, we don't really have a central gathering space. Instead, all our communal areas are pushed to the outer limits of the downtown area, along sea walls, beaches, and the strips of grass that ring it.
3) Peter Steinbrueck often lamented the public transit in Seattle, pointing out that they are just finishing their first light rail system which, he says, took 12 years to complete. Makes me feel just a teensy bit better about the Canada Line. A teensy bit. Now if only we could do light rail instead...
4) The most obvious contrast between the two cities was the decision for Seattle to put a freeway through while Vancouver chose to keep a freeway out of the city. Steinbruek argued that Seattle is still an overwhelming auto-centric city, while Vancouver encourages bike riding through a network of bike lanes.
5) There were some interesting points about Seattle's ability to draw from its many billionaire benefactors, which live in the city (coughbillgatescough). As well as the heads of large corporations situated there (Costco, Amazon.com, Microsoft, Starbucks), which all help in funding public art and other city projects. A wealth of money that Vancouver doesn't have.
By a show of applause, it was decided at the end of the night that Peter Steinbrueck had won the debate for Vancouver by a hair. And it's true. He had some great points and arguments and had me at some points thinking: Hey that's true, yeah that is actually pretty great.
If you missed out on this debate, don't worry. There is another one going on tonight in Seattle, which is being webcast on the VIA architecture blog.
Seattle Vs. Vancouver: The Great Urban Debate
Tonight from 6pm until 7:30pm
photo by tripleman in the BR Flickr Pool
Discussion
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As a recent migrant from Seattle to here, I have to agree with Steinbrueck. (Concord Pacific's copy-pasting isn't a good thing, no... but living without a car in Vancouver is a doable thing, and biking around this city is reasonable.)
However, I must say: anyone who thinks Seattle has an "amazing public library" has never tried to actually use it or spend any time in it. What a sad place that is. Give me VPL's Central Branch any day.
It's funny that you say that about the library, because when I was in Seattle recently with friends and visited it, we all marveled at the architectural creativity of it...then wondered where all the books were.
When I say it's awesome, I mean in terms of architecture and adding to the esthetic of the city. Not necessarily in practicality.
It's great to hear positivity about Vancouver's transportation network as it is so often criticized. This week is our last chance to have a say in TransLink's 2040 Vision at www.bepartoftheplan.ca. As a region, we are facing a number of issues in terms of funding our transportation network and if we want to continue the livability of our region, TransLink is going to need to find some new funding sources as their reserves are drying up.
I commute every week between Vancouver and Seattle, and I have to say, the cities are neck and neck. Seattle's neighbourhoods have evolved more organically, and are more locally oriented, with less room for chain stores and more small businesses. Vancouver is safer and far less car-dependent. The only category in which Seattle clearly takes it is bars/pubs. Seattle is full of affordable local watering holes, while Vancouver has only a few that aren't trying so hard to be cool it hurts. That might be the best way to make a distinction between the two cities: sometimes, Vancouver just tries too hard.
i think you vancouver guys are really too hard on your city sometimes, especially when it comes to pubic transit. It really is a pleasant experience, and very efficient.
(i'm from nyc but have visited many times)
One of the biggest differences I noticed between Vancouver's downtown and Seattle's is that Seattle's downtown at night essentially becomes a ghost town. I noticed that most of the buildings in Seattle are commercial whereas in Vancouver, there are many more condominiums to support a night life. I also could not find a gas station anywhere in Seattle's downtown core. It literally took me almost an hour before I could find one hear Safeco Field.