Morning Brew: May 30th

Re: "WHEN YOU YOURSELF ARE AN IMMIGRANT WHO DECIMATED THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS NOT 200 YEARS PREVIOUS(sic)"

First, I would bet my last dime that neither you, nor anyone else, can find a single immigrant (or other resident of Canada) who "decimated" anyone two hundred years ago. And i would win the bet.

Secondly,just for the record, I accept no responsibility for anything that any ancestor, relative, neighbour, or acquaintance may or may not have done. If some some ancestor of mine did something bad to someone else's ancestor...not my fault.

Besides, if we take "decimation" literally, there was no punitive killing of one in ten aboriginals in Canada. The great killer was imported Eurasian diseases for which North American aboriginals had no immunity (diseased which surely would have come sooner or later), along with some armed conflict. And yet the real story of human tragedy perhaps lies in the incompatibility of aboriginal or tribal ways of living and understanding the sacred with modern Western ones; and herein still today lie many social problems. Pointing fingers of blame doesn't really help anyone crack the real nut, and it's a big one to get your head around.

As for accommodating new immigrants, we won't do a very good job of it if we have become nihilistic cultural relativists. No thinking person wants to join in that, except to the degree it allows for cynical manipulation.

My bottom line: there are about 7 billion mouths to feed on this planet: either we accept the ethics and ways of life, the openness to science and reasonably free markets, that makes it possible to keep the current global modernity going, and the people alive, or we become complicit in mass death the likes of which the planet has never seen. So yes, immigrants and Canadians and aboriginals who want to reject modernity, for whatever reasons, need to be kept aware of the potential for great evil in their position.

You are a typical self-loathing liberal. Good luck with that.

In response to Blaise's comment: A lot of us tend to take a comment like Sean's to mean that because our ancestors did something bad, we must be sorry for their mistakes... However I believe this to be a misconception. What was established in those days continues to still affect aboriginal populations today, much to the ignorance of most non-native people. And why should us non-natives notice? A lot of those issues we don't need to encounter everyday. As non-native, most of us can afford to forget these legacies that most native people are still affected by on a daily basis. I don't think anyone's saying we should be sorry for what "our ancestors" did. (Heck, my ancestors came from the Ukraine and were persecuted in Canada themselves, so I don't need to claim responsibility!) But I do accept my responsibility as a fellow Canadian citizen to understand that there are people living in third-world country conditions in the province, and this is primarily due to laws and policies left over from this original colonial era-- laws that are still valid today, and still making aboriginal people have no choice but to experience the daily hardships that "our ancestors" made as policy 200 years ago.
Hope this made sense. It's easy to pass judgement right away, but an article in the Tyee might further give some clarity.
http://thetyee.ca/Photo/2008/05/26/AboriginalFuture/

"Besides, if we take "decimation" literally, there was no punitive killing of one in ten aboriginals in Canada. The great killer was imported Eurasian diseases for which North American aboriginals had no immunity (diseased which surely would have come sooner or later), along with some armed conflict. And yet the real story of human tragedy perhaps lies in the incompatibility of aboriginal or tribal ways of living and understanding the sacred with modern Western ones; and herein still today lie many social problems. Pointing fingers of blame doesn't really help anyone crack the real nut, and it's a big one to get your head around".

I hate to suck on your nuts here, but you have a good point. You must however consider the context, everyone, which was the original article that somebody at the Canwest Corporation titled "Let's not deprive Canadians of rights to placate those from other countries".

I mean seriously, what the hell is he talking about?

Conservative MP Rick Dykstra has introduced a motion calling for a parliamentary investigation into the corrupt conduct of the Canadian Human Rights Commission (read: progressive leftys looking for someone to censor). It will investigate its mandate, its "investigative techniques", and its interpretation of the relevant provisions of the Human Rights Code.

We're having good luck with that.

I'm just more surprised that someone wasn't offended by my Luc Bourdon comment.

Robson or whatever your name is:

It was completely unnecessary to admit to a Canadian university background since that emotional pitch and hysterical tone of your screed identifies you as such - from about 4,000 miles away from what I can tell.

"Guilt" because of what "ancestors" are alleged to have had a PERSONAL hand in has got to be the most DISINGENUOUS INTELLECTUAL CANARD that you "alleged" multiculti-ideologues on the Left cleave to. To boot, it bespeaks a dreadful ignorance of history and is incredibly boring to hear, read, etc...

Perhaps if you made a few modifications to your lifestyle, your perspective would change. For example, sell the DVD player and give up the cheesies. Not only might you learn something new and different, but that annoying "orange penis" problem will disappear, too.

"Guilt for what your ancestors did" indeed! To cite your own text, "...good luck with that."

I was born in Canada. That makes me a native. Regardless of what happened between some British merchants and some Aborigional tribes many years ago: it's time to move on. None of my ancesters were involved in persecuting "natives" in any way. I'm not taking any blame whatsoever for the perceived wrongs committed by some European mercenaries. But look at the history of the World: land changes hands all the time. Should the Swedes be made to be responsible for the invasions of the Vikings at Dublin, Ireland centuries ago? There is one lesson one can learn from what happened to the Aboriginal tribes of Canada. Their open-door immigration policy didn't work out very well for them, did it? They simply got overwhelmed by the shear numbers of new immigrants who had a different religion, different language, and different values. Sound familiar??? It's now happening again to Canada. We don't blame today's immigrants for changing the landscape of Canada, so why should we blame yesterday's immigrants for doing so centuries ago?
Aboriginals have to face reality: technology has now created a global village. We now live in a World where it is impossible to roam around freely and live off the land as a nomadic hunter. Governments of some form or another control every single tract of land in the World, and every government is somehow tied into the United Nations/World Trade Organization/IMF/World Bank, etc... I don't like it either. But that's our broken World. Face reality. Adapt, or be left behind, and controlled by the giant leviathan.

Don't worry Sean, I was totally offended by your Luc Bourdon comment. I actually paused while I drank my coffee to be sure I read it correctly...

Jill Grommet:I'm not taking any blame whatsoever for the perceived wrongs committed by some European mercenaries.

"But look at the history of the World: land changes hands all the time. Should the Swedes be made to be responsible for the invasions of the Vikings at Dublin, Ireland centuries ago? There is one lesson one can learn from what happened to the Aboriginal tribes of Canada. Their open-door immigration policy didn't work out very well for them, did it? ... We don't blame today's immigrants for changing the landscape of Canada, so why should we blame yesterday's immigrants for doing so centuries ago?"

The fact that you refer to the First Nations as having an open-door immigration policy is pretty sophomoric. So because they didn't have a concept of nationalism or property, they must be punished by agents of the Western Abrahamic traditions of conquer and proselytize? Would you rather we spend the taxpayer's money on Convention Centres for tourists who aren't coming here anymore because our dollar is so strong?

"Aboriginals have to face reality: technology has now created a global village. We now live in a World where it is impossible to roam around freely and live off the land as a nomadic hunter. Governments of some form or another control every single tract of land in the World, and every government is somehow tied into the United Nations/World Trade Organization/IMF/World Bank, etc... I don't like it either. But that's our broken World. Face reality. Adapt, or be left behind, and controlled by the giant leviathan.

You lost me there Mrs. (we forgot the crackers) Grommet. Are aboriginals demanding to roam free? Like magestic bison in the prairie winds? Or, or, or, or, was the CONTEXT of the piece in question about a Province editorial decrying the immigrant invasion, as is their wont.

I'm not a Canadian -- I come from a land where we have free speech. Yet I do have to point out a critical distinction between 'immigrant' and 'settler' or pioneer. It is not mine, it is Sam Huntington's , or maybe he got it from somewhere else. But the point is, us old stock people's ancestors built whole new societies , did things on this continent that had really never been done before. There were no roads, let alone cities, let alone a welfare state or healthcare system. Its a critical distinction.

And besides, the Indians (or 'Native American' or 'First Nations') fought back. At least here in the US they are the ones we are taught to admire. Cochise, Sitting Bull. So I guess that puts Mark Steyn in the position of a sort of latter day Geronimo.

I agree with Sean. The land-claims issue has to be settled a.s.a.p. It is extremely unfair to have these claims unresolved for so long. If there are treaties that need to be honored, then Canada should honour them. Justice delayed is justice denied. Once the land-claims are settled, then we can all move on as CANADIAN CITIZENS, equal regardless of race. No more race distinctions. No more pointing fingers, and blame-game. There is no reason for anyone who puts in a maximum effort not to succeed in Canada, regardless of race. There is every opportunity to do so.

I actually was offended about the Luc Bourdon comment, not cool man.

Jill: "Once the land-claims are settled, then we can all move on as CANADIAN CITIZENS, equal regardless of race. No more race distinctions. No more pointing fingers, and blame-game."

But surely that is not what is happening. What we are doing with the land claims is signing land and wealth over to tribal entities that are race based. Aboriginals will both have privileges and restraints because of their race. They will have to fall in line with tribal governing structures to enjoy a fair "share" in the wealth; they will not be able to own it, sell it, do with it what they will, like the rest of Canada does with its property, according to individual ownership rights that allow us to exit shared ownership structures and take our wealth and persons around the world.

Aboriginals' future looks to me like just a new form of paternalism cut with some democratic elements when those can be achieved in face of tribal or communal property ownership restraining individual freedom.

Tribalism and democracies/free market economies are not really compatible. So we are creating a new model of state-based dependency and isolation, and a less-than-fully-democratic future for "Canadians" who will not be all equal and interchangeable in fully recipocal relationships. A whole new round of resentments is on the way, I'm afraid, though resentment is inevitable in human affairs whatever kind of society one has.

I think land claims should have been negotiated on the basis of empowering aboriginals as individuals. Instead, thanks to our intellectuals' and aboriginals' resentments, full of romantic ideas about preserving tribal identities as somehow fundamental to the Canadian mosaic, and as a sign of remorse for white guilt, and "resistance" against modernity, we will have a "society" in which there are two kinds of "citizens" whose differences will not be readily exchangeable. Thus there will be conflicts that can only be mediated from on high, not locally and democratically. Canada will continue to be much like an empire, and not simply a nation.

Hey genius, buy a dictionairy and look up the definition of decimate. If your too lazy to do this your first clue might come from the first half of the word. Secondly try buying a history book. The first Europeans who came to Canada valued the native population as the fur trade needed them.

Hey genius, look up the difference between your and you're before you start calling out other people's use of language.

Jim:

Hey genius, look up the difference between your and you're before you start calling out other people's use of language.

That's what we in this part of the internet call Zing!

This thread made me LOL. Seriously.

I used to be on the side of "Why should I have to suffer/pay/feel guilty for/apologize for the actions of a bunch of European white dudes well before I was born?"

But then I realised some things and I grew the fuck up.

Regardless of the whos or hows or whys when it comes to the aboriginal population in this country being so terribly wronged, the point is, they are. Many of them live in substandard conditions, they have the highest rates of teen pregancy, young adult suicide, high school drop out, young adult HIV, etc etc the list goes on. Many of these people are trapped in almost institutionalized poverty - poverty tends to breed poverty and there is little help for these people.

It took having a friend who was aboriginal who pointed out many issues to me for me to realise how absolutely racist many Canadians are towards these people. Now, it's not obvious, over the counter, in your face southern USA style racism, it's most in a subtle, hidden, polite kind of Canadian style racism.

It's having ideas that "we shouldn't have to pay for what our ancestors did" and that "they should catch up to the 21st century" that are so incredibly racist and intolerant of these people's culture.

Why should aboriginals NOT be allowed to maintain their own culture on their own land? Why should they HAVE to live like the rest of us? I mean, look at what a state we are in right now (we as in the collective western world) who says that ANYONE should live like us? We are pretty good at fucking ourselves over.

At any rate, if white, Christian people were wronged as bad as and living in the same conditions as most aboriginal people - polluted water, poor access to electricity, high rates of illness, needs ignored by the Gov't, rights trumped etc etc, we would all care a hell of a lot more about lending a helping hand and taking care of these people.